HEAT KILLS MAGNETS AND IS BAD. Motor heat can substantially change the way your craft flies. You may tune it for a cool or med temp motor but when it gets hot, it'll fly much worse.
Larger motors with physical advantages such as larger stator and magnets tend to have better flight feel than small motors with high Kv values even if the two motors produce the same overall power. The smaller motor will usually have better average efficiency.
IMO the magnets are the single most important aspect of motors today. The issue is that we only have so much space to work with. Taller stators allow for taller magnets which is a plus but then driving that stator to the sky high RPM's under load that we do causes them to overheat. Similarly, magnet thicknesses start to have diminishing returns and increase weight a lot past ~1.6mm thick.
I've personally tested just about every motor on this chart. I've even tested 2x motors vs 1 big motor keeping the prop size the same such that the two smaller motors have the same overall weight but improvements in other metrics. The complexity wasn't worth the benefits which there were little to none. Please draw your own conclusions.
-Bob
]]>13mm 11400kv
9x9 M2 mount
2mm press fit or 2mm shaft T mount
Recommended use:
1S 2.5” or 3” with AUW 75-90g or less
This motor is designed specifically for 1S operation on 3” and 2.5” props with the 2mm press fit mounting hole. It’s optimized to produce more low end power in order to make the 1S craft feel like a much bigger craft. Compared to the other 13mm motors, this one is built a little differently in order to save on weight for small 1S crafts. It’s recommended that 1S 3” crafts stay below a maximum of ~90g AUW and below 75g AUW for good performance.
13mm 5000kv and 6350kv
9x9 M2 mount
2mm press fit or 2mm shaft T mount
Recommended uses:
5000kv - ducted 2” 4S
5000kv - 2” 3S-4S
5000kv - 2.5-3” 3S
6000kv - 3” 2S
These two motors are designed specifically for 2.5-3” 2S and 3S operation. They are designed for excellent performance, excellent efficiency, low weight and ease of operation. This is now a sixth generation motor and the magnets, stator construction, windings, everything has been very carefully refined to achieve the desired goals. There are more powerful motors out there and you can even run these motors themselves at higher voltages but we do not recommend it because of the electronic and vibrational noise management challenges. Please don’t let us hold you back from trying but we haven’t found the effort to be worth the payoff. The overall ‘Toothpick’ concept is centered around balanced performance in all respects and not specifically to be the fastest or the lightest.
16mm tall 3700kv
9x9 M2 mount
M3 and M5 size prop shaft
Recommended uses:
3” 3S-4S high powered craft with AUW greater than 150g
4” 3S with very low load props and well under ~250g AUW
This motor is unique in a few ways. First off, it’s sporting our new lighter prop shaft design which will be compatible with future M3 mount props and is fully compatible with existing M5 mount props thanks to the shaft expander that can be unscrewed. Next, it’s got 9x9 M2 mounting holes so it will fit lighter style frames and the overall stator volume is higher than 1605 while weighing much less than it should. This motor is ideal for high powered 3” operation and low weight 4” crafts.
21mm 1620kv and 2300kv
12x12 M2 mount
M3 and M5 size prop shaft
Recommended uses:
1620kv - 5S-6S 5” ~250g AUW
1620kv - 6S 4”
2300kv - 3S-4S 5” ~250g AUW
2300kv - 4S-5S 4”
2300kv - 6S Ducted 2.5-3” Cinewhoop
The intended use of this motor is specifically for improved performance on sub 250g 5” crafts compared to other current options. The motor size is 2104 which will give you a noticeable control performance improvement over the popular 2004 size while weighing about the same thanks to our new lighter prop shaft design which will be compatible with future M3 mount props and is fully compatible with existing M5 mount props thanks to the shaft expander that can be unscrewed.
We strongly suggest EVERYONE practice mindful operation of any UAV regardless of weight. Just because it’s ‘legal’ doesn’t mean you can’t cause problems. That being said, we also don’t agree with the random 250g threshold because it just doesn’t make any sense to us.
23mm short 3450kv and 2350kv
12x12 M2 mount
M3 and M5 size prop shaft
Recommended uses:
3450kv - 4S Ducted 3” Ultimate cinewhoop performance
3450kv - 3S 4” (fantastic performance)
2350kv - 6S Ducted 3” Ultimate Cinewhoop performance
2350kv - 3S-4S 5” ~250-450g AUW 5” (Significant improvement over 2004)
2350kv - 4S 4” (fantastic performance!)
FPVCycle was the first to introduce the 2203 size Cinewhoop motor that literally transformed the Cinewhoop class from a wonky craft you had to use, to a wonderful machine that’s instrumental, luxurious and fun to fly. This motor is a fourth generation design and has carefully designed components for an even higher level of Cinewhoop performance. The most obvious difference is the new 23 diameter size which results in a torque curve shift to make overall throttle control even better than our previous 2203 and 2204. It also improves efficiency slightly and further helps with heat management and consistency of performance. The new prop shaft design which is designed for the future of M3 mount props and current M5 mount props was originally intended to make props easier to get on and off because of the smaller M3 nut that’s easier to handle inside a duct. It also makes the motor lighter without any other sacrifice. Because of this motor’s spec, it’s particularly good for the ~300g 5” class and fantastic for 4” crafts.
These new motors can be mixed with any of our previous Cinewhoop motors on the same craft. Just make sure the Kv is similar.
23mm tall 1700kv and 2450kv
12x12 M2 mount
M5 size prop shaft
Recommended uses:
1830kv - 6S 5” Light weight (<~500g AUW)
2330kv - 3S-4S 5” Light weight (<~500g AUW)
2330kv - 4S-5S 4” High powered (<~500g AUW)
After a torturous level of testing in efforts to achieve full 5” level control performance in a 250g package, we reached the conclusion that by restricting a 5” craft to 250g AUW, there’s currently no way to achieve the maximum potential of 5” craft performance. So we then proceeded to make the bare minimum spec motor we would personally recommend for a 5” quad.
This motor is the first of its kind in that it’s a full 5” performance size motor with a 12x12 M2 mount platform and overall lower weight construction for its stator volume and performance parameter. Pair this motor with the Gemfan F3 prop and a sub 500g AUW 5” for a truly stellar level of control performance.
We would like to point out that many low weight 5” frames available from various brands may look nice but can give you significant performance issues as a result of poor vibration management. It is a seriously difficult challenge to design a 5” frame in the sub ~60g weight class that also has good resonance performance. We strongly recommend sticking with designs that have real world evidence of good vibration performance for this class of quad. As you increase in motor power output, being mindful of resonance is more and more important. Smaller 2004 or 2104 motors will give you fewer problems on frail frames without vibration management built in but also less performance. Finally, just because a frame is designed to work well also doens't mean your build will go perfectly. Be mindful of the potential issues and risks with squeezing top performance into a refined package.
25mm tall 1870kv and 2150kv
16x16 M3 mount
M5 size prop shaft
Recommended uses:
1870kv - 6S 5”-5.25” (FPVCycle signature performance)
1870kv - 5S-6S 5.5”
1870kv - 5S 6”
2150kv - 5S 5”
2150kv - 4S 6”
This is our signature motor with uniquely tuned performance for crafts built around the 5" range of props. If there was anything we are truly proud of, it is this motor. The most notable features are enhanced throttle control AND high power output at the same time when compared to any 2207, 2306, 2307 or other similar size motor. The power output is comparable to a 2407 of similar Kv however throttle control is improved and easier to manage.
We’ve also developed the 5.21” prop with Gemfan to further expand the performance window of the motor. Because the ~5” crafts of today are higher weight due to heavier GoPro’s, more disk area helps improve the control performance. At the same time, the larger blade allows for higher cruising speeds and more efficiency with a less aggressive airfoil to improve response. The end result is a craft that moves better than it should with more control than it should have. For general use, we recommend the Gemfan 51433 or 5.21”x2.6 (5226) prop. For high response and high speed freestyle, switch to the Gemfan F4. For more confined spaces, consider the Gemfan F3 which has extremely fast response but less speed. We do not recommend the 5236 as this prop has increased load and less response than the 5226 variant for no added speed.
This is a fifth generation motor that has all the bugs worked out. Compared to the previous motor on the market, it has a larger 10mm bearing and thicker bell construction for improved durability. The overall power output is about 4-5% higher with slightly faster response while drawing slightly fewer amps at the same time.
Recommended drivetrain and craft specs:
FPCycle 25mm motor
5.1” or 5.21” props. (Gemfan F4 or 5226 are good options)
GNB 6S 1100mah 130C, 1250mah 120C or comparable battery
AUW under 730g with a GoPro Hero.
AUW under 600g for a racing class quad.
If you can somehow achieve 580g AUW with the same performance battery as the GNB 6S 1100mah 130C, performance is pure awesome.
]]>
The popularity of the TP3 and entire Toothpick-style class is truly gratifying to see. The following is the genuine TP3 formula but of course this is only a recommendation. You can build however you like as there are many options in this area today.
TP3 frame or
Babytooth frame in 3mm thickness
1303 5000kv
Gemfan 3018 or Gemfan 3016
450mah 3S
4S 30A AIO board
Bee Brain V2 canopy
Caddx Ant Lite 4:3
Nano Vtx
Crossfire Rx
MiniMortal T V2
Should come out to about ~103g AUW. The option between TP3 or Babytooth is moreso a personal preference between unibody or multi-part frame designs. The multi-part design tends to perform slightly better due to the thinner arms.
The concept behind the TP3 is to have the most well balanced flying platform across all metrics. Control, speed, power, efficiency, noise profile, safety, ease of build, maintenance, reliability, durability, and cost effectiveness. Any of those components can be changed to your personal preference however there’s a give and take to any changes. If you change up to a larger motor, you will get more power, but you also have less flight time and more motor weight/speed which will make the frame more likely to break in a crash. If you’re looking for uber power and speed, this may be a good option for you. The setup presented above has been optimized around the components available to be as optimized as possible.
Settings:
The following are settings that should perform quite optimally on this platform but note that different environments will change the way a quad performs so you may still need to adjust things.
This image above is to indicate that RPM Filtering is ON. Previously BF 3.5.7 was the best firmware for this sort of platform but the more recent BF 4.2 builds with RPM Filtering have surpassed 3.5.7 just a little bit. The main benefit is that you can get more consistent performance with RPM Filters. If you're not sure what RPM Filters are or don't want to change any firmware, we strongly encourage using 3.5.7 because it's not really any worse.
A great easy RPM Filtering install guide: https://bit.ly/2NY74g4
The Free RPMf: https://github.com/JazzMaverick/BLHeli/tree/JazzMaverick-patch-1/BLHeli_S%20SiLabs
The important setting to note here is that D min is turned OFF. D min will mess with small quads this size and until the code improves, it's recommended to turn off. Other settings include low stick response and zero throttle boost. These are more personal settings but give you a more 'raw quad' feel without software changing the way the quad feels.
These filter settings are for RPM Filtering ONLY! Do NOT use these settings if you do not have RPM Filtering on. It will not fly well and you could burn an ESC or motor. If you do not have RPM Filtering on, leave this screen at it's default settings and just turn on the D-notch filter.
Just a note about the prop options. We actually started to prefer the 3018 more than the 3016 because the quad has a little more speed with it. The 3016 is no slouch however and has overall slightly better handling characteristics. The 3018 can have up to 30% more flight time as well which is sort of moot since you already get 3-8min on the 3016 props.
The TP3 story:
At its inception, the Toothpick formula was to turn a whoop inside out and give it the ability to perform like a much larger craft. A typical brushless AIO whoop board with similar whoop motors but no ducts and very large props for the size craft on a very light frame. The resulting performance was jaw dropping in any configuration from an AUW of ~37g on 1S to 73g on 2S and pure jaw dropping performance on 3S.
The goal with the Toothpick project was first and foremost to be safe for most environments, fully legal, quiet, durable, reliable and most importantly, loads of fun! These features should not be compatible with each other but the magic of crazy good disk loading metrics and power radios made it possible.
As with anything, the more you do it, the more developed and fine tuned your tools become. Like a surgeon that gets better at their craft and graduates to more and more developed instruments, the TP3 is literally a refined, purpose built, surgical instrument of the sky. If built to top end spec on 3S, this sucker is nearly a bullet and some of the safety goes out the window. However the same setup on 2S or with some throttle cut becomes a very safe friend :-)
The TP3 formula is similar to the original. Extremely low weight, large props for such a low weight and the smallest motor that can spin that prop with good control. The pudding is in the details however and we spent months intensely testing everything just to find out that what we’re looking for doesn’t exist! So we started making custom parts. There is a lot in how it’s setup as well but that’s better left to the video than writing pages on pages...
We won’t deliberate too much because the overall TP3 formula is already well known but this thing is so incredibly easy to fly with its low weight and incredible control, it’s exactly what the advanced pilot needs to push their own limits and exactly what the novice wants to learn on.
]]>This is how the BabyTooth platform started around 2016. 4in1 ESC's had recently entered the market and this is an attempt at baking all four ESC's with the flight controller into one PC board which doubles as the frame. This was a total disaster back then but we've come a very long way since.
Today:
Baby Tooth 1S Deluxe Build:
Baby Tooth frame in 2mm thickness
1202.5 11,500kv motors
Gemfan 3018 props
FPVCycle 1S AIO
Ant Lite 4:3 FPVCycle edition
Bee Brain V2 camera mount
PandaRC Nano Vtx
600mah 1S battery
These large rubber bands
Optional MiniMortal T V2 if using crossfire
A variant on this build is to use the 1.5mm Baby Tooth frame which is a gram lighter (1.8% lighter) but a warning for the inexperienced. While the full gram weight savings is very nice, the 2mm frame will almost never break but the 1.5mm can if you get into a particularly bad crash. For those that are experienced, this will improve performance enough for you to notice however even we use the 2mm frame most of the time ourselves because ain’t nobody got time for that. We like reliable things with less fuss.
AIO Vtx/Camera
The Ant lite 4:3 is a beautiful camera for it's weight however if you're looking for the absolute maximum performance, you can sacrifise image quality and signal strength to save a gram by going with the AIO Vtx/Camera.
Baby Tooth 3S Super: (this is not really in the same category)
Baby Tooth frame in 3mm thickness
1303 5000kv motors
Gemfan 3018 props or Gemfan 3016 props
AIO Toothpick board
Ant Lite 4:3 FPVCycle edition
Bee Brain V2 camera mount
PandaRC Nano Vtx
450mah 3S battery
These large rubber bands
Add your choice of receiver
This is the Toothpick 3 drivetrain built on the 3mm thick Baby Tooth frame which will make it surprisingly powerful and quite fast. The 3mm frame is NOT recommended for 1S builds. The reason the 3mm variation of this frame exists is for those that prefer a unibody design over the Toothpick 3 design. This design is called the ‘Baby Tooth’ not because it’s smaller than the TP3, but because it supports 1S better and is simpler than the TP3. The 3S build on the Baby Tooth frame is beyond the scope of this article. It’s just added here for those that were wondering.
About the build:
We’ve found that your ideal target all up weight (including battery) is below 60g. This is a very easy target to hit and the reason that is the limit is because beyond about 60g, the nature of how the 3018 prop works in the air starts to change. You no longer have the same smooth control feel or ability to pull out of dives with ease. In general, any of the 1S build variations above will be under ~58g. Dropping your all up weight below 50g begins to give you significant performance benefits but is more involving. As a general rule of thumb, 55-60g is great and will perform well.
AIO Board is still under development for now. Should be available around the end of the year.
The tune:
We recommend not changing the firmware on the FPVCycle 1S AIO board. It already comes with the latest Betaflight and 48k ESC firmware. You can update things as you wish but we're not responsible for burnt ESC's due to user errors with updates.
The following PID tune is a general starting point. It flies really well with these numbers but if you’re a tuning wiz you can improve it further. You may notice that throttle boost is turned off. That setting is a personal choice. It tends to feel a little artificial to us so we turn it off.
Rates are a personal setting however with the battery swung under, it tends to exaggerate the expo so a little less expo than you’re typically used to and a little higher RC rate may feel better.
Filters are all at default
Lastly, pay attention to the voltage alarms. You must reduce the warning and minimum voltage alarm or it will constantly be alarming you. 1S batteries can usually operate fine down to about 3.0v in flight under load. Below that it starts to get pretty sketchy with respect to battery cycle endurance. Normally you do not want your lipo going below 3.3v in flight under load however in this case, it’s hard to pull enough amps out of such a small battery to cause significant battery degradation from cycle to cycle when running below 3.3v. This goes for all 1S quads. You can set your numbers to whatever you like, these are just our recommendations. We personally use an alarm warning of 3.10v but 3.22v gives you more time to safely land.
Other general build options:
3016x3 props and 1S
With these, you will have an even quieter quad but it will also be a little slower and have less flight time. The control, grip and punch performance will improve very very slightly.
XT30 vs other connectors
The typical 1S battery connector is the PH2. This connector is absolutely awful for conductivity. Switching to a better connector will almost double your flight time AND performance at the same time on any given whoop. For this 3” 1S class of quad, the BT2 and GNB 27 connectors also suffer a bit with conductivity. The best option is the XT30. If you have an extra low weight build like Mr. Shutterbug, you can get away with the GNB27 or even BT2. The GNB27 connector weighs slightly more than the BT2 but also has slightly better conductivity.
Battery
You can really use anything from a 350mah to 700mah or even bigger 1S cell. The best cell for high performance will be the 450mah 1S 80C. The best cell we've found for a balance of cruising flight time and performance is the 600mah 1S 50C cell. We currently stock the 600mah 50C 1S packs but will also stock the 450mah 1S packs when GNB gets more stock of them in.
The following video is for entertainment. If you're planning on doing any battery mods, the best tip we have for you is: DO NOT pull the cells apart quickly, let them separate slowly and DO NOT cut ANY power tabs off the cells or you will not be able to solder to them anymore. Be gentle and pay attention to the +/- polarity. If you are not comfortable managing sparks and a possible small fire, DO NOT ATTEMPT this.
HV vs Non-HV Batteries
We don't like HV cells. They do not perform any better, do not last as many charge cycles and cost more. Their advertised ratings are inaccurate at best and blatant misleading lies at worst. Even GNB isn't perfect in this area all the time. The GNB 520mah HV cell is actually 445mah when you use and charge it to 4.35v. The cell performs almost as good as the 450mah 80C cell but will not even remotely hold up to the same number of charge cycles. If you'd like more details about our testing, the description on THIS page presents it.
Camera
There are two primary options here. The lightest option is the AIO camera/vtx but this is just a whoop cam. It's just 25mw and has a super wide angle lens. The overall best FPV picture per unit of weight is the Ant Lite 4:3 FPVCycle edition which is what I'm flying in the video above. It weighs 1.7g but you still need an external Vtx. The AIO cam/vtx is the lowest weight and will provide the best performance but the worst FPV view. Soooo do you want slightly better performance or a better view? Your choice.
Press fit props Vs Prop screws
There’s ongoing debates about press fit vs screwed on props however test results don’t lie. Eliminating the screw drops about 2-3g of weight where it counts most while increasing thrust and motor response. This was recognized with the original Toothpick years ago and ever since, we recommended press fit props. Back then the prop shafts were only 1.5mm thick and would sometimes break in a hard hit. We developed the 2mm press fit which is now standard today and haven’t had any shafts broken since. Overall, press fit has been very reliable unless you somehow get slick oil on the shaft or something, then you might throw a blade in flight. Just wipe the shaft if this happens. Our motors have both the 2mm press fit and the prop screws so if you’d like, you can always add the screws. The 2mm press fit is extremely convenient to use as well.
AIO board options
We've been working on making a reliable 1S AIO for TWO YEARS! This is the most robust board we've made yet and there's nothing out there that holds a candle to it.
1103 motor option
The original Toothpick formula included 1103 7500kv motors and 2S with the extra low load KK 65mm props. As the Toothpick platform development progressed, we ditched the 2.5” props size because 3” is not much bigger, has considerably more disk area and is much better at carrying the components we wanted to carry. While 1103 and 1202.5 work fine on 3” props, the 13mm motor we've developed is just about the same weight as the 1202.5 and much better feeling in the air with respect to control and throttle performance. There isn’t currently an 1103 we recommend for the 3” build but 1103 will manage the 65mm prop options well. 1202.5 is the minimum recommended motor size for light 3" props on any voltage.
The Mr. Shutterbug build
If you’re at all interested in these sorts of builds and don’t know Mr. Shutterbug, you’re about to be impressed. Mr. Shutterbug is a master of this field and his builds are nothing short of a work of art. He takes every possible consideration to drop weight off the build. Extra light mounting screws for the FC, titanium screws for the motors, 1.5mm frame, the smallest possible camera and a host of other weight saving measures. The end result is something that is sometimes a full ten grams lighter! That’s more than 20% weight hacked off! His quads perform significantly better however they are not designed to take damage and are very carefully put together. If you really want to get into this stuff hardcore, his methods of improving performance are far more meaningful than bigger motors or more powerful props. Let him tell you more about it here:
4S vs 6S on a CineWhoop:
The only reason we know of today for moving up in voltage is if you’re overworking the battery due to high weight or high load. Unless you’re trying to lift 2+ full size GoPro’s, it’s not necessary to move up in voltage from 4S. That being said, we have the FPVCycle 2204 2800kv that will work well on 6S.
On 4S this setup has so much power that if you’re not planning on lifting at least a full size GoPro, you may consider using 3S for improved throttle control.
3S 1100mah 130C: https://bit.ly/3hCKwhw
V3 Ducts:
The V3 Ducts are a genuine improvement in flight performance and efficiency however it is the 2203 motors that make the biggest difference. An intermediate to experienced pilot will greatly appreciate the improvement from the V3 Ducts on top of the 2203 motors. The novice pilot may not be able to tell as much of a difference.
Noise profile:
Just moving any cinewhoop to the 2204 motor with the Gemfan triblade duct props will reduce the overall noise profile a little. It will still be loud but not quite as terrifyingly loud. For the quietest possible build, use the V3 Ducts with 2204 3450kv and 3S 1100mah batteries. The resulting noise from that setup is about a third quieter than the standard 4S triblade setup.
Gemfan Penta Duct props
3S 1100mah 130C
For tune setup see here:
The CineSplore Concept:
This goal of this design is to be lightweight, modular, cost effective, convenient and provide a high level of flight performance given it’s a cinewhoop. While the frame is not weak for a cinewhoop, notice how ‘durable’ is not one of the primary goals here. This is because in order to make a cinewhoop durable, a lot of weight needs to be added all over it which significantly impacts flight performance. The duct options we offer for it so far are also not heavy. They are designed for improved flight performance, not for resilience to smashing into things. Sure the whole setup can take bumps and small falls no problem, but it’s not a basher.
We won’t deliberate much on the design here but one notable aspect is that this setup is intended to be run with an AIO whoop board plus the DJI/Caddx Vista unit. It will fit 20x20 stacks and analog as well but the combination of an AIO + Vista is so simple it makes it a lot cleaner and easier to manage. There are two stacks side by side and ample vertical build height. The standoff height is 30mm which is a bit tall but unfortunately normal for a cinewhoop given the duct height. The V3 Ducts are 22mm tall and if you switch the standoffs out for 25mm standoffs with the V3 Ducts, you will get a small boost in control performance. There are some other features designed into the frame that improve rigidity and durability. More details on this can be found in the following video about the frame.
The back story:
We've gone through a metric ton of design concepts for this. Cinewhoops are loads of fun but have a bad reputation for their wonky performance. They’re most well known for being constantly touchy on the throttle with unreliable altitude control and blatantly lacking on the yaw. We set out to find a better way without reinventing the wheel. While we were not fans of ducts for a very long time, after testing many ducts we found that they actually do have favorable flight attributes that make the cinewhoop style flying easier in some ways such as maintaining slow speeds and harder in other ways like throttle/altitude and yaw management. After loads of unique designs, we went back to ducts and optimized the drive train, frame and duct to get the best performance we could manage. Of course it’s still a cinewhoop so it’s not going to be a super acro machine but it’s genuinely easier to fly than anything else we’ve tested.
After loads of unique designs, we realized anything original would just get copied by China over night. So we went backwards and looked at China's offerings to see what we could gain from their super budget stuff. It didn’t even take three minutes to land on the extremely popular Cloud-149 design. This particular design jumped out at us because it has moulded instead of printed ducts. We appreciate printing but also despise it for it's cost, weight, durability and limitations. These moulded ducts are readily available and so uber cheap it's hard to ignore. They're also made of a reasonably durable material and weigh just 10.9g ea. All that being said, it was the very reasonable mounting platform that won us over. Yeah their performance isn’t the greatest but nearly every duct out there has similar issues. With this now easy to use mounting platform, we had a starting point to design an improved duct while being able to offer the budget minded pilot something they can work with. The V3 Duct is the result of this effort and it performs considerably better however has the downside of being more expensive.
There is no standard duct mounting platform right now. Considering how well the Cloud 149 platform happens to work, we’re sharing the pattern and mounting method so anyone will be able to design a printed duct to fit the hole pattern. In fact our goal with this whole thing is to get people to do the cinewhoop thing more. It's for this reason that the frame platform is cost effective. With this much simpler duct mounting platform we can also manufacture duct designs for DRASTICALLY less which will drops the retail cost significantly.
Build Guide: <---click here
Build guide videos by the community:
This setup is the main recommended option. It flies fantastic, easy to tune, low overall risk of burning components and can carry light HD cameras like the Insta360go very well. A GoPro Session is no problem either but it will begin to impact performance.
4S 1100mah setup on 4”:
Fouride in 4"
FPVCycle 2203 3000kv
Gemfan 4023
4S AIO Toothpick board
4S 1100mah 130C
Capacitor
Vista kit
About ~15% more powerful than the 3S variant, this one will be notably faster and be able to carry a GoPro Session more easily. It is still easy to fly with excellent characteristics but it will be more difficult to tune. This is a symptom of the higher voltage and overall higher power output. Another result of the higher voltage is a very slight increased chance of burning components.
3S 1100mah setup on 5”:
Fouride in 5"
FPVCycle 2203 3000kv
Gemfan 5125
4S AIO Toothpick board
3S 1100mah 130C
Capacitor
Vista kit
This particular setup is a bit of a treat. It performs remarkably well, it has no issues carrying a GoPro Session, is about as fast as the 4” variation on 4S, is easy to tune and an overall joy to fly. It’s quite impressive how much performance can come from such a small 3S 1100mah pack. The downside is that the frame is primarily intended for 4” so the arms are longer which makes them more susceptible to fracture in crashes.
The 5” build on this frame should really be reserved for users that are at least a little experienced such that crashing is usually the exception rather than the rule when you go out to fly.
About the 2204 Motor:
The 2203 motor was specifically designed for 3” CineWhoops and 4” setups. You don’t need to use this motor for this frame. Any 1407-2004 motor is suitable. The advantages of this motor over a typical 1407-1608 or 2004 are the following:
- More robust build with a 3mm internal shaft rather than smaller
- Better magnet to inter-magnet spacing ratio for smoother throttle control
- Torque band shifted lower in the RPM range which provides enhanced control
- More efficient in the mid to low end due to shifted torque curve
- 8mm bearing for improved durability, efficiency and smoothness of control
The Fouride is intended to be a lower weight build that will carry the lower weight HD cameras of today along with analog or the DJI/Caddx Vista system while providing suitable protection for the Vista and excellent flight performance. Given the electronic component environment of today, the design is centered around taking advantage of recent high powered AIO Whoop boards while also supporting the 20x20 stacks of yesteryear.
Flight performance:
Weight distribution refers to the arrangement of components on a frame that governs how spread out or tight the weight of those components are packaged. This is a major factor of flight performance. All up weight even takes a back seat to weight distribution much of the time. The more tightly packaged the weight is around the center of gravity (center of rotation in free space), the easier time the flight controller will have managing that weight and executing your commands. As you reduce the prop size, weight distribution becomes increasingly important.
With the build height of the Fouride being just 15mm, one of the primary requirements of the design was to package it’s component weight as tightly as possible without making it overly difficult to build and manage. The DJI system is only 13mm tall which just fits and with the advent of numerous cost effective whoop boards that are more than capable of managing a mid weight 4” build, there isn’t a need to have more than a single board solution. The overall electronics build of the frame simplifies down to just two components, the whoop board and the Vista system. Of course analog components fit as well but they’re typically smaller than the Vista so it shouldn’t be an issue.
The frame is a wide X pattern. While a true X is preferred, it’s just not reasonable to have that much prop in view when you have an HD system on board. In order to get the props further out of view, the arms would need to be much much longer with the same 4” props or the fuselage be much longer to protrude out the front. Both of which would increase weight and reduce durability. Also not reasonable. The flight performance of a wide X over a true X for freestyle is that you give up some pitch control performance and gain some improved roll control feel. Considering we’re not usually doing as much flipping as rolling when flying freestyle, this is a suitable compromise to gain a smaller, lighter and more durable package.
How it started and why it’s a 4”:
The concept of this design started out as a small package to carry the DJI Vista system and provide suitable protection and excellent flight performance. Looking at the electronic landscape of today, it’s now pretty clear that things are getting smaller and in most cases, a simple AIO Whoop board is sufficient. Now just to decide the location of the battery and HD camera which are the heaviest components on the craft. It’s designed for freestyle so having the battery and camera on top is all but a requirement. The next step was to decide how to arrange these components optimally.
There are two primary ways the electronics could be laid out. Side by side or vertically on top of one another. Because of the Vista units height, stacking things vertically would result in at least a 25mm stack if you were good at building. It would not be acceptable to have the battery and camera 25+mm off the main deck. The resulting flight performance would suffer. Side by side electronics is the only option. Once wrapped in carbon and standoffs, the fuselage length was long enough such that you could run 3” props, but 4” also fit without much of a squeeze. The resulting frame became a 4” but you can run 3” props on it if you wish. With 4”, you get a bit of prop in the HD camera. With 3” you don’t get any.
Protection:
Since the very beginning with the original Hyperlite, Hyperlite Floss and even before, reasonable component protection has been a theme. This concept has just been refined over time after several thousands of pictures of crashes from customers. With the Fouride, things are a little different.
Vertical plates usually do a somewhat better job protecting the camera from light to medium damage. Standoffs do fine but much of the time the lens protrudes from the standoffs just a little bit or the design of the top plate is compromised a bit and can break somewhat easier. Because of this designs low 15mm build height, squeezing the DJI camera into that space was a bit of a problem. It actually took over a month to figure out a nice clean way to hold those vertical plates on. The end result is a front end that’s pretty robust but not indestructible by any standards.
The middle of the frame has one single standoff. This is for the specific reason of maintaining the height of the center to keep it from imploding into the Vista unit. This center standoff puts the top plate under tension as well because it’s a half mm taller than the overall build height. Think of it as a tenting pole.
Overall, this frame is not designed to be a basher but much thought has been put into providing reasonable protection for critical components. Of course the motor bumpers are there as well.
Convenience:
This is often an area completely overlooked but it is a very meaningful area when you build many things. This frame has individual arms. None of the arm screws interact with the standoffs and the mounting screws for the arms are even moved far away from the stack platform so you have the entire 15mm build height to work with. No pesky screw heads under the electronics to deal with. The front end is also modular and can be replaced without much effort in the event of a fracture from impact. The mounting platform for the HD camera on top uses press nuts such that you can undo the entire mount with just the four screws. This same mounting platform fits other frames too like the CineSplore and CineGlide. Finally, some nifty mounting points for antennas or whatnot. We offer some antenna mounts but it’s pretty easy for anyone to model their own mount of sorts to tie onto the side mount or the rear standoffs. Your time is valuable. We don’t want to waste a moment of it.